We had a big fight last night! This was a level 5 group of 4 going up against a Wraith with a few extra hit points, some spell scrolls and some lair actions. I rated it at CR 6; I feel like it was a little short of a CR 7.
During the stream break, there was a mention from Kat that she had recently been in another game that featured a fight with a lich. She felt that the fight was drastically overrated and that initiative and a lack of lair actions (the lich was outside its lair) led to an easier-than-expected fight. There was also some debate about how that fight was run; there's always the question of what the DM was shooting for. It could have been nerfed to make the CR more reasonable; apparently this was harder than reasonable for the party by CR alone. It also could have been DM error. I've definitely used monsters to less-than-optimal impact because I haven't read the stat block thoroughly.
This fight was near-deadly for the party. Lair actions got used to limit the effectiveness of the party. A lot of them ended up with reduced movement or visibility throughout the fight. Spell scrolls allowed me to target them as a straight line (lightning bolt), but I had no luck with the Banishment spell. I really wanted that to happen. I had a scene planned that would have been epic. Still, you roll with it!
Wraiths, specters, shadows: having used them all in the last 2 fights, life drain attacks feel right in 5e. In AD&D 2e, using them was brutal and terrible, basically crippling characters. In 5e there's an impact but nothing that can't go away given time. Still, to put pressure on a party, you could keep up these damaging life drain attacks to reduce resources and force rests, with all sorts of additional consequences (sneak attacks, unsettling dreams, healed bad guys).
There had been 2 previous encounters, both of which were intended merely to soften up the party and drain resources. All in all, the encounters, their setup, their results felt right.
So, to make this boss feel satisfying and difficult:
Now we move into the next phase of our exploration of an evil demiplane: into the home of the mistress of the realm. Also, a great chance to use ice and snow, which I rarely do. Looking forward to next game!
During the stream break, there was a mention from Kat that she had recently been in another game that featured a fight with a lich. She felt that the fight was drastically overrated and that initiative and a lack of lair actions (the lich was outside its lair) led to an easier-than-expected fight. There was also some debate about how that fight was run; there's always the question of what the DM was shooting for. It could have been nerfed to make the CR more reasonable; apparently this was harder than reasonable for the party by CR alone. It also could have been DM error. I've definitely used monsters to less-than-optimal impact because I haven't read the stat block thoroughly.
This fight was near-deadly for the party. Lair actions got used to limit the effectiveness of the party. A lot of them ended up with reduced movement or visibility throughout the fight. Spell scrolls allowed me to target them as a straight line (lightning bolt), but I had no luck with the Banishment spell. I really wanted that to happen. I had a scene planned that would have been epic. Still, you roll with it!
Wraiths, specters, shadows: having used them all in the last 2 fights, life drain attacks feel right in 5e. In AD&D 2e, using them was brutal and terrible, basically crippling characters. In 5e there's an impact but nothing that can't go away given time. Still, to put pressure on a party, you could keep up these damaging life drain attacks to reduce resources and force rests, with all sorts of additional consequences (sneak attacks, unsettling dreams, healed bad guys).
There had been 2 previous encounters, both of which were intended merely to soften up the party and drain resources. All in all, the encounters, their setup, their results felt right.
So, to make this boss feel satisfying and difficult:
- Lots of movement that limited follow-up attacks
- Lair effects are great
- Spells that exploited the area
- Softening the party up first
Now we move into the next phase of our exploration of an evil demiplane: into the home of the mistress of the realm. Also, a great chance to use ice and snow, which I rarely do. Looking forward to next game!
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ReplyDeleteGreat insights, and an awesome idea for boss fight! The mods to Wraith work really well, I'd wager, and the attention to environment with lair actions makes it special. Really cool! The negotiation scene should also be a lot of fun to watch.
DeleteI'm, uh, gonna rant about Lichs real quick, because they /are/ tough and I've put a lot of thought towards them. Lichs are one of the few monsters from the Manual that I use (most of my baddies are from scratch in my campaign), because (like Beholders) they're just so iconic.
Lichs are one of the hardest Legendaries to run well (and outside of their lair, might as well not be legendary at all). Lichs prepare, Lichs are spellcasting geniuses, Lichs lay traps, Lichs use the right spells at the right time -- played smartly and viciously, Lichs can overcome their seemingly low hit point pool and other design obstacles.
That said, I do like to make a few simple changes to my Lich -- I remove the Legendary Actions "Frightening Gaze" (I don't use the 'frightened' condition in my games, just don't like the mechanic) and "Disrupt Life" (we can do something more original and variably useful for a Challenge 21 Legendary, right?) ... I replace them with:
Quick Cast (Costs 2 Actions): The Lich casts one of its available spells, using a spell slot.
Reflect Magic (Costs 3 Actions): The Lich casts Counterspell, using a spell slot. If the Counterspell is successful, the Lich may immediately cast the countered spell regardless of any restrictions and without using a spell slot.
Finally, I give the Lich the benefit of a permanent Mind Blank spell being cast upon it, which I do feel is sort of essential to keeping things fair for a high level party.
Now we're cooking with a Lich that's a little bit more the master of all magicks. After all, with only 135 hit points, it's going to be a fast and brutal fight -- and the Lich has so many great spells that you wanna throw at your players. Don't overlook the defensive stuff: Counterspell, Shield, Mirror Image, Globe of Invulnerability, Invisibility -- the Lich doesn't need to wait until combat starts to cast some of these protective spells. Assuming the Lich is aware of the PCs for at least 30 seconds before they confront the undead caster, it has plenty of time to prepare.
And no creature with Disintegrate, Finger of Death, Power Word Stun, and Power Word Kill can be overlooked. Lichs fail, mostly, when they ignore defense. The Lich's biggest threat is going to be against melee-focused characters first, so it looks to take them out of commission as soon as possible using its 3rd lair action and its most powerful spells.
Played right and with just a few small tweaks, the Lich can be absolutely terrifying and capable of surprising the party with how it uses its resources each and every round.
That's a great commentary on the Lich! I think a great series for GMs and DMs would be on using (as you said) iconic monsters to fullest effect.
ReplyDeletePlaying a spellcaster is already difficult; using a spellcasting monster is doubly so. I really liked the variety of lair actions and spell effects for this fight because of that.
I totally agree that use of lair actions, legendary abilities and general 'prep' which includes the whole dungeon/encounter area is part of making a great boss fight.
I also think that the Lich should be one of the monsters that inspires the party to run away and try again if necessary. The party reducing the Lich's resources might be the best way to even the odds.
Thanks so much for commenting!